Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 2:50:47â¯AM UTC-5, piglet wrote:
On 22/05/2023 04:13, Lamont Cranston wrote:
On Thursday, May 18, 2023 at 5:16:33â¯PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote:
Iâm a little disappointed in the way the voltage divider is working.
Using 1.5MΩ, 2 Watt 5% resistors, 8 in a string.
Setting the input at 8.04kV, we get 7.02Kv, 6.06kV, 5.16kV, 4.28kV, 3.45kV, 2.7kV, and 2.08kV.
When I expected 8KV, 7kV, 6kV, 5kV, 4kV, 3kV, 2kV and 1kV.
Kind of messed up at the bottom end.
Hereâs what my voltage divider string looks like on the banana jacks.
Do the think this is caused by leakage across the resistors?
I wiped them down with alcohol and it didnât get any better.
Using 100MΩ probe.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/eu8hyz676b9moa0/Oil%20water%20High%20Voltage%20diideron%20HV%20banana%20connectors..jpg?dl=0
Mikek
Puzzling. Have you measured all eight are the same value?
What is the max voltage rating of those resistors, even 2W parts can
have max rating only 500 or 750V - you could try doubling with two
identical in series between each banana jack?
piglet
I tried a couple of things this morning, I applied the Kapton tape that was bought for this purpose.
That seemed to have a few 10s of volt difference at the low end. under 3%.
But then I noticed where I\'m standing and how the meter leads are dressed makes a difference in the Voltage reading.
I wound the long HV probe cable around the probe and rerouted the low end meter lead.
That improved the last two low end measurement from 2700V to 2130, the expected is 2000V and
2080 down to 1280V, expected 1000V. So, where getting closer to what I expect.
My son is taking the unit back to work to do some experiments today, I will suggest that he shorten
the meter leads to the minimum required to take the measurements.
Thanks, Mikek
The observation that the tap voltages depend on the position of nearby
conductors is pretty diagnostic of a corona problem.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
(Who is doubtful of this whole proceeding)
Iâm a little disappointed in the way the voltage divider is working.
Using 1.5M?, 2 Watt 5% resistors, 8 in a string.
Setting the input at 8.04kV, we get 7.02Kv, 6.06kV, 5.16kV, 4.28kV, 3.45kV, 2.7kV, and 2.08kV.
When I expected 8KV, 7kV, 6kV, 5kV, 4kV, 3kV, 2kV and 1kV.
Kind of messed up at the bottom end.
Hereâs what my voltage divider string looks like on the banana jacks.
Do the think this is caused by leakage across the resistors?
I wiped them down with alcohol and it didnât get any better.
Using 100M? probe.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/eu8hyz676b9moa0/Oil%20water%20High%20Voltage%20diideron%20HV%20banana%20connectors..jpg?dl=0
Mikek
Quoting error. I did not say the above, or anything similar.
Joe Gwinn
On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 8:36:40?AM UTC-5, Phil Hobbs wrote:
The observation that the tap voltages depend on the position of nearby
conductors is pretty diagnostic of a corona problem.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
(Who is doubtful of this whole proceeding)
We turned the lights out last night and could not see or smell anything.
¯\\_(?)_/¯
I\'m doing the best I can with all your help, which I greatly appreciate.
What we have done so far is getting results, if/when a type of process
is decided on, they can spend money on something like a Trek 609B-3.
https://www.advancedenergy.com/globalassets/resources-root/data-sheets/en-hv-amplifier-trek-609b-data-sheet.pdf
Mikek
On Mon, 22 May 2023 08:25:12 -0700 (PDT), Lamont Cranston
amdx62@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 8:36:40?AM UTC-5, Phil Hobbs wrote:
The observation that the tap voltages depend on the position of
nearby conductors is pretty diagnostic of a corona problem.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs (Who is doubtful of this whole proceeding)
We turned the lights out last night and could not see or smell
anything. ¯\\_(?)_/¯ I\'m doing the best I can with all your help,
which I greatly appreciate. What we have done so far is getting
results, if/when a type of process is decided on, they can spend
money on something like a Trek 609B-3.
https://www.advancedenergy.com/globalassets/resources-root/data-sheets/en-hv-amplifier-trek-609b-data-sheet.pdf
Mikek
Corona will be very nonlinear. Crank your Variac down 50% and
measure again.
On 2023-05-22 11:36, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 22 May 2023 08:25:12 -0700 (PDT), Lamont Cranston
amdx62@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 8:36:40?AM UTC-5, Phil Hobbs wrote:
The observation that the tap voltages depend on the position of
nearby conductors is pretty diagnostic of a corona problem.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs (Who is doubtful of this whole proceeding)
We turned the lights out last night and could not see or smell
anything. ¯\\_(?)_/¯ I\'m doing the best I can with all your help,
which I greatly appreciate. What we have done so far is getting
results, if/when a type of process is decided on, they can spend
money on something like a Trek 609B-3.
https://www.advancedenergy.com/globalassets/resources-root/data-sheets/en-hv-amplifier-trek-609b-data-sheet.pdf
Mikek
Corona will be very nonlinear. Crank your Variac down 50% and
measure again.
Milliamps of corona should be pretty obvious, I\'d have thought. Dunno
then.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
On Tue, 23 May 2023 22:31:40 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
On 2023-05-22 11:36, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 22 May 2023 08:25:12 -0700 (PDT), Lamont Cranston
amd...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 8:36:40?AM UTC-5, Phil Hobbs wrote:
The observation that the tap voltages depend on the position of
nearby conductors is pretty diagnostic of a corona problem.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs (Who is doubtful of this whole proceeding)
We turned the lights out last night and could not see or smell
anything. Å»\\_(?)_/Å» I\'m doing the best I can with all your help,
which I greatly appreciate. What we have done so far is getting
results, if/when a type of process is decided on, they can spend
money on something like a Trek 609B-3.
https://www.advancedenergy.com/globalassets/resources-root/data-sheets/en-hv-amplifier-trek-609b-data-sheet.pdf
Mikek
Corona will be very nonlinear. Crank your Variac down 50% and
measure again.
Milliamps of corona should be pretty obvious, I\'d have thought. Dunno
then.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
And with 1 KV per resistor, 8KV total, there shouldn\'t be much corona.
It is interesting how the 1 KV increments aren\'t.
On Tue, 23 May 2023 22:31:40 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
On 2023-05-22 11:36, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 22 May 2023 08:25:12 -0700 (PDT), Lamont Cranston
amdx62@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 8:36:40?AM UTC-5, Phil Hobbs wrote:
The observation that the tap voltages depend on the position of
nearby conductors is pretty diagnostic of a corona problem.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs (Who is doubtful of this whole proceeding)
We turned the lights out last night and could not see or smell
anything. ¯\\_(?)_/¯ I\'m doing the best I can with all your help,
which I greatly appreciate. What we have done so far is getting
results, if/when a type of process is decided on, they can spend
money on something like a Trek 609B-3.
https://www.advancedenergy.com/globalassets/resources-root/data-sheets/en-hv-amplifier-trek-609b-data-sheet.pdf
Mikek
Corona will be very nonlinear. Crank your Variac down 50% and
measure again.
Milliamps of corona should be pretty obvious, I\'d have thought. Dunno
then.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
And with 1 KV per resistor, 8KV total, there shouldn\'t be much corona.
It is interesting how the 1 KV increments aren\'t.
John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
On Tue, 23 May 2023 22:31:40 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
On 2023-05-22 11:36, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 22 May 2023 08:25:12 -0700 (PDT), Lamont Cranston
amdx62@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 8:36:40?AM UTC-5, Phil Hobbs wrote:
The observation that the tap voltages depend on the position of
nearby conductors is pretty diagnostic of a corona problem.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs (Who is doubtful of this whole proceeding)
We turned the lights out last night and could not see or smell
anything. ¯\\_(?)_/¯ I\'m doing the best I can with all your help,
which I greatly appreciate. What we have done so far is getting
results, if/when a type of process is decided on, they can spend
money on something like a Trek 609B-3.
https://www.advancedenergy.com/globalassets/resources-root/data-sheets/en-hv-amplifier-trek-609b-data-sheet.pdf
Mikek
Corona will be very nonlinear. Crank your Variac down 50% and
measure again.
Milliamps of corona should be pretty obvious, I\'d have thought. Dunno
then.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
And with 1 KV per resistor, 8KV total, there shouldn\'t be much corona.
It is interesting how the 1 KV increments aren\'t.
BITD I did some work on corona point air ionizers for semiconductor clean
rooms. Each point ran at about 2 kV, and put out a few microamps.
The C is a leaded glass tube, but I still wonder if it should have a cage around it.
As I recall the old TVs had a perforated iron cage around them for x-ray protection.
I\'m thinking about a thin wall steel tube as both x-ray and physical protection of the tube.
I\'d leave an open area at the bottom for heat flow up through the tube.
Mikek
P.S. There is some old RCA literature that said during service, replace the 6BK4 with a 6BK4C
to reduce radiation exposure.
On Wed, 24 May 2023 12:24:40 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
On Tue, 23 May 2023 22:31:40 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
On 2023-05-22 11:36, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 22 May 2023 08:25:12 -0700 (PDT), Lamont Cranston
amdx62@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 8:36:40?AM UTC-5, Phil Hobbs wrote:
The observation that the tap voltages depend on the position of
nearby conductors is pretty diagnostic of a corona problem.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs (Who is doubtful of this whole proceeding)
We turned the lights out last night and could not see or smell
anything. ¯\\_(?)_/¯ I\'m doing the best I can with all your help,
which I greatly appreciate. What we have done so far is getting
results, if/when a type of process is decided on, they can spend
money on something like a Trek 609B-3.
https://www.advancedenergy.com/globalassets/resources-root/data-sheets/en-hv-amplifier-trek-609b-data-sheet.pdf
Mikek
Corona will be very nonlinear. Crank your Variac down 50% and
measure again.
Milliamps of corona should be pretty obvious, I\'d have thought. Dunno
then.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
And with 1 KV per resistor, 8KV total, there shouldn\'t be much corona.
It is interesting how the 1 KV increments aren\'t.
BITD I did some work on corona point air ionizers for semiconductor clean
rooms. Each point ran at about 2 kV, and put out a few microamps.
Did they have deliberately super-sharp points and small gaps to create
high field gradients? A resistor soldered to a pair of banana jacks
shouldn\'t do that.
John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
On Wed, 24 May 2023 12:24:40 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
On Tue, 23 May 2023 22:31:40 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
On 2023-05-22 11:36, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 22 May 2023 08:25:12 -0700 (PDT), Lamont Cranston
amdx62@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 8:36:40?AM UTC-5, Phil Hobbs wrote:
The observation that the tap voltages depend on the position of
nearby conductors is pretty diagnostic of a corona problem.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs (Who is doubtful of this whole proceeding)
We turned the lights out last night and could not see or smell
anything. ¯\\_(?)_/¯ I\'m doing the best I can with all your help,
which I greatly appreciate. What we have done so far is getting
results, if/when a type of process is decided on, they can spend
money on something like a Trek 609B-3.
https://www.advancedenergy.com/globalassets/resources-root/data-sheets/en-hv-amplifier-trek-609b-data-sheet.pdf
Mikek
Corona will be very nonlinear. Crank your Variac down 50% and
measure again.
Milliamps of corona should be pretty obvious, I\'d have thought. Dunno
then.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
And with 1 KV per resistor, 8KV total, there shouldn\'t be much corona.
It is interesting how the 1 KV increments aren\'t.
BITD I did some work on corona point air ionizers for semiconductor clean
rooms. Each point ran at about 2 kV, and put out a few microamps.
Did they have deliberately super-sharp points and small gaps to create
high field gradients? A resistor soldered to a pair of banana jacks
shouldn\'t do that.
Theyre pointy, but are kept away from other conductors
Corona is a complicated process, with quite different physics depending on
whether the point is positive or negative.
On Fri, 26 May 2023 16:21:38 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
On Wed, 24 May 2023 12:24:40 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
On Tue, 23 May 2023 22:31:40 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
On 2023-05-22 11:36, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 22 May 2023 08:25:12 -0700 (PDT), Lamont Cranston
amdx62@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 8:36:40?AM UTC-5, Phil Hobbs wrote:
The observation that the tap voltages depend on the position of
nearby conductors is pretty diagnostic of a corona problem.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs (Who is doubtful of this whole proceeding)
We turned the lights out last night and could not see or smell
anything. ¯\\_(?)_/¯ I\'m doing the best I can with all your help,
which I greatly appreciate. What we have done so far is getting
results, if/when a type of process is decided on, they can spend
money on something like a Trek 609B-3.
https://www.advancedenergy.com/globalassets/resources-root/data-sheets/en-hv-amplifier-trek-609b-data-sheet.pdf
Mikek
Corona will be very nonlinear. Crank your Variac down 50% and
measure again.
Milliamps of corona should be pretty obvious, I\'d have thought. Dunno
then.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
And with 1 KV per resistor, 8KV total, there shouldn\'t be much corona.
It is interesting how the 1 KV increments aren\'t.
BITD I did some work on corona point air ionizers for semiconductor clean
rooms. Each point ran at about 2 kV, and put out a few microamps.
Did they have deliberately super-sharp points and small gaps to create
high field gradients? A resistor soldered to a pair of banana jacks
shouldn\'t do that.
TheyÂre pointy, but are kept away from other conductors
Corona is a complicated process, with quite different physics depending on
whether the point is positive or negative.
I worked with an outfit that made tomographic atom probe microscopes;
we did the electronics. At high fields, like 1e8 v/cm, the field rips
atoms out of a sharp metal tip.
Electron emission from a sharp tip or nanotube has been tried too, as
a tube cold cathode and as an electron microscope source. But the
rip-the-atoms effect dulls the tip pretty soon. Ions are bad news too.
John Larkin <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
On Fri, 26 May 2023 16:21:38 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
John Larkin <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
On Wed, 24 May 2023 12:24:40 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
John Larkin <jla...@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:
On Tue, 23 May 2023 22:31:40 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
On 2023-05-22 11:36, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 22 May 2023 08:25:12 -0700 (PDT), Lamont Cranston <amd....@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 8:36:40?AM UTC-5, Phil Hobbs wrote:
Electron emission from a sharp tip or nanotube has been tried too, as
a tube cold cathode and as an electron microscope source. But the
rip-the-atoms effect dulls the tip pretty soon. Ions are bad news too.
Focused ion beam mills use liquid gallium tips. The field pulls the metal
out into an atomically-sharp tip that renews itself continuously.
I have now hit a point where I think I have a problem where I am putting one side of the neon sign transformer secondary at ground potential.
The scenario is using a sig gen to drive the tube grid, this ties the HV PS at ground (near) potential though the circuit breaker box (sure would be nice to know if the neon transformer could handle that).
I have made a drawing showing in red how the neutral/ground bond causes this to happen.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kjut0dl8j28q3se/Pulser%20Push-pull%20design.Neutral%20ground%20problem.jpg?dl=0
Can I opto isolate the drive signal from the sig gen to isolate the ground?
Is there another way around this?
Thanks, Mikek
On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 6:55:39â¯AM UTC-5, Lamont Cranston wrote:
I have now hit a point where I think I have a problem where I am putting one side of the neon sign transformer secondary at ground potential.
The scenario is using a sig gen to drive the tube grid, this ties the HV PS at ground (near) potential though the circuit breaker box (sure would be nice to know if the neon transformer could handle that).
I have made a drawing showing in red how the neutral/ground bond causes this to happen.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kjut0dl8j28q3se/Pulser%20Push-pull%20design.Neutral%20ground%20problem.jpg?dl=0
Can I opto isolate the drive signal from the sig gen to isolate the ground?
Is there another way around this?
Does adding an Isolation transformer on the neon sign transformer primary solve the issue?
That would be easy and I have several isolation transformers, that will fit in the HV PS enclosure.